Washington, DC  - Americans for Peace Now (APN) strongly condemns the launch of rockets from the Gaza Strip at Israeli civilian areas, mourns the deaths of at least 10 civilians in Gaza after ongoing Israeli airstrikes and urges all the parties and stakeholders to take action to prevent further bloodshed.

We are heartbroken for the families in Gaza who have lost loved ones and for the countless more families in Israel and in Gaza who are living in fear of the next air raid or rocket strike. The psychological devastation of this perpetual cycle of violence can not be overstated.

APN urges all parties to the conflict – Israel, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Hamas, and the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank – to do their utmost to prevent further deterioration and to avoid another disastrous war. The solution to the Israel-Gaza crisis, and, indeed, to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, should be pursued and reached through diplomacy rather than through violence.

Produced by the Foundation for Middle East Peace in cooperation with Americans for Peace Now, where the Legislative Round-Up was conceived.

Yossi Alpher is an independent security analyst. He is the former director of the Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies at Tel Aviv University, a former senior official with the Mossad, and a former IDF intelligence officer. Views and positions expressed here are those of the writer, and do not necessarily represent APN's views and policy positions.

Ori Nir  

Hi, everyone, thanks for joining this Americans for Peace Now webinar. I am Ori Nir and with me is Hadar Susskind, APN's president and CEO. If we told you a year ago, or even six months ago, that hundreds of thousands of liberal Israelis would go out to the streets to protest their government for 18 weeks going every Saturday night, and midweek as well, sometimes, you'd probably say that we're dreaming. Israelis, particularly liberal Israelis, have been perceived for years as uninvolved, depoliticized, even apathetic to public life. First came the shock of the magnitude of this protest, the shock of how organized and disciplined the protesters are. And then the wonder regarding the stamina, the perseverance of this movement. And another fascinating phenomenon is the popular grassroots character of the movement. People are not following a leader, or a group of leaders, or something like that. They just show up sometimes spontaneously, and sometimes following some guidelines that they get from social networks. Still, several organizers and activists have emerged as inspirational leaders of this powerful movement, perhaps the most prominent of them is Shikma Bressler. She's a physicist by profession, a longtime activist in the movement that protested Benjamin Netanyahu's corruption, the black flags. She's a mother of five girls, and a former basketball star. Before she gets on the stage, I was told by people who are always at the first row, they told me, before she gets on the stage to you know, wow, the audience, she jumps in place to warm up, and then she gets there and gives her very inspirational speech. So if there's one iconic leader to this protest movement, or with this resistance movement or whatever you'd call it, it is Shikma Bressler and we're extremely fortunate to have her with us today. Hadar –

 

Hadar Susskind  

Thank you, Ori. Thank you, Shikma for being with us today. I don't want to take too much of the time because we want to hear from you. But I just want to say, again, a thank you for for your leadership, for what you're doing. I have been lucky enough to be there for a few of the protests in Tel Aviv, and to see you there, and your partners in this and the energy of it is really just unbelievable, unlike anything I've seen before and the diversity of the crowd coming together, speaking up and saying, you know, this is unacceptable, what's happening, and we want to see change. And we're going to come out day after day, week after week to make that change. It's just incredibly impressive. And so I thank you for that. And thank you for being with us here today. And I just want to turn it over to you to tell us a little bit more about this movement about what's happening. Why? How? What are the goals? Anything else you want to share.

 

Shikma Bressler  

Sure. Thanks. And I'm happy to be here. Just to say that, you know, you said that I'm a long going social activist and it's weird to think of me as such. Because I've never been a social activist in my life. It just happened to be that actually, during COVID days, we had a conversation it was the first COVID lockdown so no one knew what's going to happen. There was no vaccination. We were just forced to be locked in our houses. We really didn't follow these instructions. We were sitting, all my brothers and myself and our families, of course at my parents house and discuss what's going to be next step. So Netanyahu's trial was supposed to begin a couple of days later. And I was asking, kind of naively, so what would be the next step, are they going to lock down courts? And my dad said no way. And at the same night, they actually locked down courts. I think that we are the only country in the world, certainly the only democratic one whose courts locked down, effectively locked down, during COVID days. And it was just two days literally before Netanyahu's was supposed to begin. And then during the continuation of that same week, Yariv Levin asked or forced or encouraged the guy who was back then Yuli Edelstein, the chair of the parliament, to not follow the Supreme Court decision and not call for a election for being replaced. It was after the I think third election in a row, we had no government, basically no elected government, all the ministers that we had there were basically selected by Netanyahu based on personal loyalty and not loyalty to the people. And at the same week, we find ourselves without courts. And without basically an active parliament, because in Israel, if you don't elect a new chair for the government, you cannot form the government committees whose role is to supervise decision taking, or criticize the decision taken by the government. So if you are familiar with the Israeli regime, I don't know the constitutional structure or whatever, Israeli democracy relies on balancing between the three authorities and we were effectively left with one at one week. This one was only the government which was strongly led by Netanyahu was not elected basically, back then. And it was all done on the background, you should think of, you know, the first COVID days, so like emergency days. And for us who are not active at all, the fact that we will able to identify in advance the red line of crossing that that could be crossed of locking down courts, and we saw it in action. I think this is what, you know, forced us to do something. I'm telling you that because when the next day, we will calling people to join us for a rally to the Knesset, we could not have protest because we are not allowed to gather together we said okay, each person take his car come with a black flag, and we just make like a convoy to the parliament to awaken the people there or whatever. What we were actually calling was "Democratia." By the way, thousands and thousands of Israelis joined us back then, at that date. It was our first experiences as protesters or social activists. And we found ourselves essentially leading thousands and thousands of people who were just I mean, I think what was happening is that if people like ourselves, who as you said, were never involved felt that we must do something just reflect the feeling of many, many, many other people who just joined. And I'm telling you that because what we were identifying back then, and we will ask people to come with black flags. So in Israel, black flags are two things. One, they are show of risk, and we put the black flag when the sea is danger, when it's stormy to tell people to get away and see it's dangerous. And there is another time or reason to raise a black flag and this is when an illegal command is given to soldiers or officers and when an illegal command is given, it means the terminology that we use, the term is that a black flag is raised on top of this command, and then it's not that you can choose to obey, you're forced not to obey by law for an illegal command with a black flag raised on top of it. So we call people to come with black flags, because we saw the risks to Israeli democracy and the call of the people "democratia" that you can hear on the street. I mean, I shouted it back then already three years ago. And just to say that, once the Bennett-Lapid government was formed, we actually stopped all of our activities, we shut down the small nonprofit organization that we issued for that purpose. And we each of us, went back to our own houses, and we only resume activities prior to the last elections. And of course, not us, but millions literally okay, hundreds of thousands of other people find yourself becoming all of a sudden active not after the last government was formed but actually, because if you listen carefully to Netanyahu's speech at the day of forming the new government, he was speaking of four points that the government is going to deal with which had to do with Iran, of course, and the crisis that we have about the cost of housing, and the insecurity that people feel when walking in the streets, their internal security, and I think the other was the cost of life, basically. So he was pointing toward these four points, but only a couple of days later, a week later or so, Yariv Levin, the Minister of Justice, actually gave his own speech saying that they are going to perform a judicial reform, which is actually a coup, if you look into it very carefully. And then Esther Hayut, the president of the Supreme Court gave a speech explaining the meaning of what Yariv Levin's plans are. And that gave rise to tons of different grassroots organizations. You could see all of a sudden groups of lawyers, groups of academia people, groups of doctors, and when some people around here who will familiar with our activities are involved in the activities in the former protests, let's say, what they realized what we all knew, is that if you want to run an effective protest, you need to have funding. Meaning that you need a bank account, you cannot just you know, it's nice to have lots of groups of thousands of people, but how would you, you know, buy t-shirts, how would you print posters, so you need some funding. You need some lawyer support, someone who will tell you, you can do this, you cannot do this, this is legal, this is not. You need some PR support. You need logistics. You need to be able to, anyhow, so they formed what is called the headquarter of the protest, and part of it aiming at enabling all the different groups to to actually conduct their own protests, not saying to the different groups what to do, but provided that they're all working under the same set morals and values, all working towards democracy, and just to support them and allow them to work. Over 200 different organizations are registered under these headquarters, not all of them need support to the same level, the high tech, for instance, groups are highly organized by themself, but they also part of the headquarters because we also try to coordinate activities. So what you see is a real grassroots organization from the point of view that people just emerge from the bottom, but it is well organized, because support is given to these groups to enable their activities, and this is the combinations that you see. It's actually quite amazing. I mean, you get a phone call from I don't know, a social worker one day saying, "Look, I have to start a group of social workers," I say go ahead. And then the day after she comes back, saying that more than 80% of the Israeli social workers are actually now in one day organized to a group and they are now you know, part of the active groups, and likewise, you see this in tons of different things. So this from the point of view of organization, I can answer question, I can also maybe just, you know, say all the things that I wanted to say. I want to be not sure how familiar people worldwide are with what is actually going on here. So what needs to be understood, and it was actually stated, by Yariv Levin a couple of weeks ago, he was caught, you know, saying that had their original set of words would pass, the meaning of that would have been that the courts, or the justice system would have been placed like below, or being controlled by the government. And given that the parliament is already controlled by the government, it actually means that the government would have control this with two other authorities. He said that himself, you know, after preparing this coup for, for 20 years, and after 10 weeks of people in the streets, being called anarchists being called whatever you can imagine, by our government, and then he come and said that and the meaning of that is basically you know, that Israel democracy is dead. You know, this is what he was saying. And now it's not much different than that, just to say that what we know today after 18 weeks in the street, but we knew it already before is that the Israeli government within its ideology is to change Israel from a democratic, liberal democratic country into some sort of dictatorship or whatever we would like to call it. It's not, you know, not necessarily that different, you know, named for that, but some sort of a dictatorship with very strong religious flavor, I would say. Some fascists, Jewish fascism in it as well. So this is what they want to do this is within their ideology, we know that this mask have been, you know, fallen, you cannot take it back. This is who they are, we know that this is what they want to do. We also know that they are willing basically to sacrifice the country in order to achieve or to fulfill their ideology, they are willing to sacrifice the Israeli economy, the Israeli high tech system, the Israeli education system, health care system. We also know when when Gallant, the Minister of Defense came and said, "Look, if we are continuing this way, we are putting Israeli safety at risk," because tons of military have said that they are not going to serve under a dictatorship that the ongoing ... they trained, they signed the contract with the democratic country to save a democracy or to protect the democracy not to protect the dictatorship that made a huge difference in the entire protest. Again, as the Minister of Defense said that they are willing to sacrifice Israel security and Netanyahu fired him after saying that, right, he fired his own Minister of Defense for saying, you know, putting up the flag raising the concern of the threat, and they're willing to sacrifice our soldiers freedom. So they will be subject to sue at the Hague court and so on. So these things are known, and they cannot be taken back. This is who they are, this is what they want to do and this is what they're willing to sacrifice. Which is, you know, something that you from that point of view, Professor Yuval Noah Harari said it nicely. The border has been crossed, we cannot take it back. Even if tomorrow morning, they decided to cancel everything, which they won't by the way, but even if they do say that. I mean, we know how fragile our system is. And we know who they are. And given that this is who they are, they will always continue to try to push for that. But the other thing that we have learned on the contrary, that when we unite, and we have been united the majority of Israel, you have to understand you see it in all the polls, more than 70% of the population in Israel support the protest, either because they completely disagree to the judicial overall or because they do not agree with the way it is being carried out. So we know that when we unite, we can actually prevent them from doing that. But it's highly non trivial. And it's, it's really demanding. And this is why I think we see so many people in the street, we came up basically from the early days with two demands first, get rid or completely remove all the rules. It's not just the judicial overhaul, there are a set of about 150 different tools, none of them, if you look at them, none of them is for the benefit of the entire population. They're all either sectorial either racist, all kinds of really awful thing, you can go one by one and see that none of them is for the benefit of the country, including, of course, the judicial overhaul. So all of it need to be completely removed from the from the table. And the second thing is that we, as I said they did not do that, we are a couple of hours away from completing the legislation in part of those rules, because of how the system is working. And the other things that we demand that is that they will agree or declare that any deep changes in the constitutional structure of Israel will be made with broad consensus. And also in this respect, so they are now discussing and negotiating under the president umbrella. But what they keep saying that if they don't reach broad consensus that they will continue with the legislation and they do progress with with many of these rules, the smaller one or the largest one. So they do not appreciate they do not accept the basic ingredients that the changes need to be done with broad consensus of course they will be happy to get it but. Since we are only a couple of hours away from completing the legislation, we are actually now saying that it's not enough that they say okay, we stop. It's not enough. You either have to withdraw it completely. But we also want them to come up with a new set of words that that strengthen the you know, the weaknesses of our of our structure. We need to make sure that from that point on and again as Yuval Noah Harari said that there are two ways we can only move forward, we cannot go back because of what we know. So it's either we go to an original very dark days if they succeed, or that we will find ourselves forcing the changes such that the Israeli democracy will strengthen will be enhanced or secured for the future. And I think that I spoke enough.

 

Hadar Susskind  

That was great. Thank you. And that's a perfect spot. We've got a lot of good, good questions coming in. But I think two things, I just want to clarify folks who were listening, when you were talking about being a few hours away from these changes going through, that doesn't mean that it is going to happen in a few hours. What that means is that they've gone through readings in the Knesset now where it would only take a few more hours of Knesset action to push them. So those aren't eminent today, but they could be any time. And then my other question I have for you, first one because I have a lot of them, honestly. But the first one is, you know, the protests, we talked about sort of how impressive it is having mobilized hundreds of 1000s of people in all of these different sectors of Israeli society coming together. But obviously, the protests are not the end. Right? They're a means they're a way to try to get us to something. So I guess my my first question to you is, how do you think about the goal, the end, for the protests? What are you trying to accomplish with this movement?

 

Shikma Bressler  

Yeah, so I think that we can talk about in different layers or different levels. The most basic one is what I just said. The two original demands of the protest, if they are fulfilled, it will end as far as I'm concerned, at least the protest itself, the activity in the street, because the risk will be removed. And this is completely dismiss this set of rules and make sure you agree or commit or take the right action needed in order to ensure that from now on, deep changes in the structure can only be made with broad consensus. So if these two things are fulfilled, then I will not you know, find the need to go out the street more than once a week, every week for for that long. This is I think, the most basic layer of it. But I think that what is happening is of course, deeper than that. Because as a democratic liberal Israeli, as you said, we are sort of a very passive people, which was true, we didn't like what we were seeing that is becoming out of the country. But you have to understand that there is a very effective, like we call it poisoning systems that Netanyahu built, to tear the country apart in sense that, you know, people kind of fear to say what they feel if I tweet on Twitter, and you read the response to that, the amount of that, and the personality that is coming from and so on, you'll really see the it's the violence over there. So they really made us feel that we are like a small, weak minority, or whatever you were looking at, someone told me on the street, that for four years, he was actually one of those that for years, protested and he was thinking all the time, "So well, is everybody? Am I the only person." And all of a sudden you see everybody, it's like, pluralistic ignorance at its depths if people are familiar with this term. So we felt that we are really the you know, I don't know. So it was easier for all of us to, you know, to be with our families to push forward our careers. We felt we lived in some sort of a bubble. And what this protest is showing is that that people do care. We are the vast majority of the people and the face of Israel the real face of Israel is what we were actually thinking of them it's not I don't know, I don't know I don't want to use these terms, but it's not Netanyahu and he is like group of supporters, violent, ignorant, and whatever. These are really not the majority of Israelis. To some extent, they got control over the government, fine, but this is not what Israel is all about. And this is seen in the streets. So I think that the next step would be in this is going to be super, super challenging. First of all, we have to win the current battle, it's clearly the most important thing. But even if we do that, we will have to somehow make sure that the I would call it the the watershed that the protest is showing because it's separate between, you know, normal, decent people to those who are highly extremist fascist. So to show that those are the two different camps that we have, and that the majority sits in, in the camp of, I call it the normal, but you can also call it there to some level democratic, liberal, but not sure. I mean, it's a bit complicated when you think of the different subgroups in Israel. But I will say that the majority of the Jewish Orthodox are interested in living in a normal place, right, they don't want to live in a place where the corruption and violence and so on, is everywhere. So I think that the protest is showing that. But unlike, you know, the political system where the watershed is still divided, and fixed and set, by exactly where Netanyahu wants you to sit between left and right, and us and them, and first and second Israel, and so on, so forth, Jewish and Arab, no matter how you want to, you know. So we need to make sure that we keep the camp of normal people as a single camp, and to drag the discussion into that, and then in the much longer term, what we should do is to define the set of values and morals and the backbone of Israel for the future generations to come. Because in the end, this is what it's all about. What kind of country we want to raise our kids at. And what kind of Israel do we want to see. And I think that the majority wants to see a nomal Israel. Protest show that very clearly.

 

Ori Nir  

Yeah, I wanted to ask you about what we already have some questions in the Q&A and as you can imagine, you're on an Americans for Peace Now webinar, quite a few people asked about what they call the elephant in the room. In other words, the issue of the Occupation. I'm in Jerusalem at the moment, I've participated in two of the demonstrations here in Jerusalem. And I can tell our viewers that the occupation theme is very much present. My question to you is, how the do the organizers deal with this agenda? Is the anti-occupation agenda welcome? And then a second question, which I think is more interesting is whether this incredible energy that we see on the streets could serve to boost to kind of turbo boost the anti-occupation movement in the future, once perhaps, the issue of democracy and, you know, the legal overhaul is settled in some way.

 

Shikma Bressler  

So I have to say that I don't see it as the elephant in the room. In the sense, I know that there are certain groups who think that every bad thing that we see in Israel is a result of the occupation. I don't think that this is the case, I think that it is a thing that we have to resolve. But I also have to say that there are other groups in Israel that have been, let's say that the former Israeli democracy did not do just with them. So one of them are the Arab population, it's of course an extreme example. I'm not trying to say that it's not. But we also have inside Israel, many different groups that have been left behind in the form of democracy, these are they all kind of periphery, peripheral areas, the Jewish Orthodox communities, the Israeli-Arab communities, and so on. I think that what we are seeing right now is a different groups, the Ethiopian community, by the way, many, many, many different groups that have been really, really left behind. So this is why by the way, we are not seeking going, you know, back to how we were 20 years ago, it's not about that it's about restructuring the country for the future, because 20 years ago, was not good enough. Otherwise, we wouldn't have wouldn't have been where we are today. And also, you know, concretely, if you look at the facts, it wasn't good for many different groups. So the way that I see it right now, Israel with the protest, we are, as I said, defining the camp, setting the watershed clearly. I think that the different groups within Israel will have to set their groups for a reason I do understand it was always said that if the liberal parties in Israel wants to when they need to join forces with the Arabs, but I don't think that all the Arabs are liberal in that respect. So this watershed will have to, and as I said it's not trivial. It's not guaranteed, but ideally, each group has to redefine itself and structure on the two sides of this watershed. And then with the normal people, we can then decide how to do. I definitely agree that one of the first thing to solve is the issue of the West Bank but there are different ways to solve it. What we want to make sure is that when we get to a decision of how to solve it, the discussion will be done under democratic rule of the game. And then I'm not sure that I agree with, I'm certainly not sure that I agree with all the protesters in the street of what would be the best solution. On the other hand, I don't claim that my idea about the solution is the best one, I don't have all the information. So there could be different ways to solve it, I definitely think that you know, what is going on in the occupied areas, and so on. It's mostly occupied people, not areas, as far as I'm concerned, at least, this has to be resolved. But I don't think that it can be resolved before we define who we are. Because if we end up as a non-democratic country, then who cares about what's going on, I mean, the government, the regime will not care about the other, we just all of us will be living under some sort of occupation in this respect. So this is how I see it. I think this does not mean by no chance to ignore all the other dramatic and important and critical problems that we have. But they are all at the one level. And we are dealing with defining the rules of the game and defining the backbone of the country. Again, even if we win, it doesn't win, it doesn't mean that we succeed. And even if we win, it doesn't mean we will solve later or the problems. Right fully. But without winning now and resolving those issues that we are dealing with like now, I don't think that there is a chance to resolve anything else. But this is my opinion only. 

 

Hadar Susskind  

Thank you. So we've got a lot of good questions coming in. I want to take one from Susie Gelman, who's with us today who was asking about as we're going into summer, we know Netanyahu said okay, we're pausing the process. And as you said earlier, he didn't say we're pausing it and let's all negotiate from the beginning. He of course said we're pausing it but we promised to do exactly what we said. But he clearly did so in an effort to sort of take the wind out of the protest movement. Right. And I would say the good news is we've seen still hundreds of thousands of people coming out but, are you you know, are you worried about this strategy on his part to sort of drag it out? We're going into summer it's hotter people are doing different things, they're traveling, how are you thinking about that strategy on his part?

 

Shikma Bressler  

No, we are certainly worried. This is what we call the Poland system ways of making a judicial coup. If you're familiar with that, you will you know that in Poland, they started with very aggressive judicial overhaul then the public responds, they sent it back and then the the same thing but at a much slower pace and of course this is a concern here as well. So I think one important thing is that they say legend the discussion under the umbrella of the President will get to an end because this is just you know wasting your time if if they are discussing and not reaching any conclusion and not appreciate the fact that they do need to make the changes with bold consensus and why they did it all about I mean the basic I don't know basic principle for that is not fulfilled. But yes, it is a concern. And I'm not sure that we have I mean I cannot tell what will happen. We are very I think that we are very pleased to say that in the last four weeks apparently there was no apparent reason to continue the protests because the parliament was on a break so no rules could be and still people hundreds of thousands of them came every week. And this week we are let's say raising up there the flames again with the midweek activities tomorrow. So I hope it will waken everything up but it is certainly a concern. 

 

Ori Nir  

We have quite a few questions from our participants and encourage people to keep asking. So do it with a Q&A tool that's at the bottom of your screen. I'd like to ask you two questions that have been asked by our former chair of the board, Marty Bresler who's with us. By the way, it's a different Bresler we checked, it's not yours. So Marty's asking first, what is your answer to charges that have been made that the protest is instigated and supported by Americans, American money, American organizers, and so forth? And the American government, that's true. And then the other question has to do with the issue of compromise? Do you see some kind of a compromise formula of potential possible compromise formula that would satisfy the expectations of your friends and colleagues on the streets?

 

Shikma Bressler  

Yeah, so for American involvement in funding, it's a big, fake information. And in a reality of fake information and fake news. I mean, you kind of lose the basis for communication. I do want to say that we run the most the largest. How do you say fundraising from the from the from the people who did?

 

Ori Nir  

Crowdsourcing? 

 

Shikma Bressler  

Yeah, crowdsourcing. The largest one ever in Israel. On an online site, we got more than 25 million Israeli shekels from about 50,000 individuals with an average donation of less than 50 US dollars. So this is the amounts that we are discussing. There are other sources which are allowed. Yeah, but all the money, I think the 98% of the money is Israeli money, which is kind of unbelievable, I would say so this is, but I mean, for those who just lie. What can you tell? I mean, there is nothing we can tell. But those are the facts. And all the numbers are available for the public, as is required by Israeli laws. And the second question is, just remind me, what was it?

 

Ori Nir  

So the question has to do with the issue of compromise.

 

Shikma Bressler  

Look, the ability to reach a compromise is you know, it's an excellent ability, but compromise, by itself is not you know, is not a value, it's not a moral. So we can never compromise on the values and morals we believe in, like equality, like freedom, like obvious things. It's all framed nicely under the world, democracy, there is no half democracy, there is no quote of democracy, you cannot compromise on that. But there I do, I do have to say that there are different ways to guarantee Israeli democracy. And in this respect, you can compromise on different levels. But the basic concept, we need to be clear that  we need to secure Israeli democratic structure for the generations to come and on that we cannot compromise. 

 

Hadar Susskind  

So one of the things that I think is noticeable and interesting about this protest movement, is that it's people like you who've come together to help build this and lead this. It's not been led by politicians. Right? We've seen some of the some of the politicians come out and speak at a protest here or there. But this is clearly not a movement of the political leaders of the political parties. So that being said, what do you think, is the role for the folks for the opposition politicians? Do you think there are people who are effectively engaging in this? And do you see maybe new political leaders and parties or formations possibly coming out of this?

 

Shikma Bressler  

So and I'm giving my you know, my personal opinion and perspective on that. I think that as I said, the political system in Israel is subdivided or divided across a certain watershed. The protest is drawing a different watershed. And if you take leaders from the protest and throw them into the political system, they will be flooded by you know, the old definition it's very hard to change terminology you even you know, you hear, you listen to the radio and you listen to the conversation and are still using the terminology which Netanyahu is still working hard to maintain on the same watershed. So I think that, I mean, certainly new people will come, but the goal would be to change the map such that, to shift the watershed, and once this is done then we will be really winning, whether it's easier to do it with new parties, or by changing the the narratives. I think that we will, globally, not necessarily myself, but all the attempts will be made by different people, I'm kind of sure that there are people who try and perform new parties that old parties try to probably recruit, or I don't know, to bring in new people that represents more the protests than this. But all of it will have to happen. I just want to say that this is highly, highly, highly non trivial, because we are fighting a very efficient, and I even want to very efficient, very funded machine that really works how to tear the country apart on the exact line that we have been torn apart in the last five years or more.

 

Hadar Susskind  

Ori, before we go to the next question, I just have a little follow up on this. You know, I've seen both some of the the current politicians come out and speak and also some of the previous leaders. Do you feel like, I'm talking about the the opposition people now not that not the government, do you feel like they're listening to the protesters? And I know, you've talked about how it's different watersheds, but you feel like they're listening, do you feel like the protest movement is impacting?

 

Shikma Bressler  

It's impacting everything, you have to understand that we had, as I said, we were under this pluralistic ignorance, that atmosphere, none of us was feeling safe to talk about, you know, democratic values, and so on. And all of a sudden, people do feel that they can do that. So teachers in school never spoke in the last years never spoke about those issues, politics, they still afraid to do so. But more and more people agree to do that. So the things changes, politician changes, they turn the conversation or the speech or the discussions though those ideas, but to keep it there will be super hard. I'm trying to say when you have hundreds of thousands of people in the street, the impact is immediate. But to maintain an impact for the longer term, it's it's I think it's highly non trivial.

 

Ori Nir  

You know, I've been following the patterns of the movement now for quite a long time. And I identify here and there some themes that are that have characterized other non-violence protests or resistance movements in the past and I'm just curious to know if you're following some kind of examples or patterns or you know, emulating anything that you've seen in, you know, outside of Israel.

 

Shikma Bressler  

So, there are two separate researches that have been published in the last years about the effective movements. One shows that if more than 3.5 or 3.2% of the population are actively involved, if more than 3.5% of the population is involved in the process, then good chance that it will succeed. And the second one distinguishes between three different types of movements one, which is polite, like normal protest in couple of the ones that we are holding the second which is impolite, but non violent. And the third is the violent one. And the impolite, nonviolent type of protest is the by far the most effective type of protest. This is also why we are calling for all kinds of different activities. Some of them are being imported from other countries. Of course, we can't have invented everything. But this is why we do that. I mean, we don't want to no one wants to really block a block the highway but but on the other hand, no, we are not protesting for the sake of protesting. We are protesting it's a fight literally for our future for our life, and we need to win it. So we take every measure that guarantees that and yes, many, many different things are taken from wherever. Whenever we see something that is not like just myself. People do that on their own.

 

Hadar Susskind  

Thanks. You know, one of the things you've been talking about in a few different ways, the sort of the short term goals, you know, stopping the judicial coup, and then the longer term goals of addressing the basis of Israeli democracy. So the short term, I think, you know, what will come to play in the politics, new elections, political parties, all of that, the longer term, you know, when, when we talk about the basis of American democracy, one of the things that we look to is the Constitution. And Israel, of course, that doesn't have a constitution and basic laws, you have other things, you know, is the protest movement, is the leadership of the protest movement, talking about the concept of a constitution for Israel as a specific goal?

 

Shikma Bressler  

Yes, so, but as I said, there are different ways to secure democratic countries, they also know, for instance, I didn't know it before, I now know that also, North Korea has a very, very liberal constitution. So it's not just about having a constitution, it's about the entire system. It's about the essence of judges who actually interpret the Constitution and the law. So there are different ways different mechanism to ensure that I'm not an expert in that I'm far from actually I'm really not an expert in that So I cannot give more depth insight into that. But there are different schemes, different people are working on different schemes, the Constitution would have been great, but by itself is insufficient. So I trust, you know, so this is why I'm keep going back to the idea of redefining the values, the core values based on which the country is defined, because if we define that, then whoever is within the camp, and they could be more liberal or more conservative. And it's all fine. I mean, I am on the liberal side, but I'm not claiming that you cannot be conservative by nature, it's fine. It is within the camp. And then a decision in the new structure will have to be accepted by the majority of those people within our camp. And this is why we are fighting, we are struggling when we're defining this camp. And this is why the protest is aiming and I think it will take us also for a brighter future it has to.

 

Ori Nir  

We promised you that we won't keep you beyond like 50 minutes. So we'll ask a quick question to end with. And that has to do with what it is that Americans can do in order to help. And before you know, before you answer the question, I wanted to mention one thing that I think is very helpful, a letter that was just organized by two members of Congress, we have about 20. And correct me if I'm wrong, Hadar, it's I think more than 20.

 

Hadar Susskind  

21 or 22. 

 

Ori Nir  

Yeah, House members who've already signed it. And it's a letter that actually addresses the Israeli activists and congratulates them, and empowers them and so on. And so my question to you is, what can Americans who are not members of Congress, the average American do to support this this incredible movement?

 

Shikma Bressler  

So I think that a lot of it is about, like explaining what is going on. I'm not sure I kind of I think as far as I know, that majority of people around you, who are you know, more or less supporting Israel are not familiar with what is going on here. Do not understand that to that level, the, as I said, what what this government ideology is all about and what they're willing to sacrifice for them. And the second thing is that I think that people, as I said, our self we kind of got diverted from Israel. We were living in Israel, but we didn't like what we were seeing. We didn't feel that the you know, the face of Israel as they are being presented to the world reflects who we are. And now we show that and I think it also calls some, like divergences of the Jewish population all over the world from from Israel. And so I think that this is also an incredible opportunity to try to unite us all back into a single nation that is spread all over the world. I think it's important for the future of Israel. I think it's important for the future of the Jewish communities. It's important for me as you know, as an individual, I think, because this is who we are, this is the people that this is our history and it's not that we respect that it is really who we are. So I think that this is a good opportunity to strengthen back the, the forces to unite again. And I think that it also gave us strength here to continue. Because it's as I said, it's not, you know, none of us wants to do it, we are just dragged in to do that for us to do it by, by them. And of course, all kinds of funding is always useful, we are probably heading to a very long battle here, it's not going to end in any second and running continuously 18 weeks already in a row protest is costly. So I think, you know, what money is like the trivial thing, but I think that there is really a deep opportunity here, and we should take the opportunity and help it happen. Because what we're seeing around the world how, you know, the young generation feel towards Israel, is not so far away from what we were feeling towards the country, in so many levels. And this is really not what the country is about, we see it really everywhere. And I think that, you know, as a nation, we we can be proud and we can take this opportunity.

 

Hadar Susskind  

Shikma, thank you for that. Thank you for everything that you are doing. I think, you know, all of us here in the US share the goals, and we're spending our days and our time, you know, working to try to see a better future for Israel for Palestinian neighbors as well. But like you said, you know, that core democracy, that core function of the country, is an essential and I just want to thank you again for really stepping up and stepping into this leadership role. We're glad that you were with us today,

 

Shikma Bressler  

There are many, many, just to say that many, many, many grassroots leaders on the street. I happen to be more familiar in the last days, but it doesn't mean much. They are really hundreds of thousands of people, more than 2 million Israelis were actively participating. It's an incredible number.

 

Hadar Susskind  

Please give them all our thanks and know that you know, from here in the United States, we stand with you and I will be there again soon. I'm sure many others on this call will be there again soon and we will be with you. So thank you, Ori. Thank you and thank you to everyone who joined us today.

 

Q. On Sunday April 30, the Knesset returned for its summer session after a month-long holiday break. Why is the coalition now postponing legislation for its ‘judicial reform’? Did the anti-reform demonstrators win? Did PM Netanyahu get cold feet?

A. The coalition is postponing its judicial reform legislation for a number of interlocking reasons. It committed publicly, when the spring legislative session ended a month ago, to participate in compromise negotiations at President Herzog’s residence that could continue at least until the end of May. Those negotiations have neither succeeded fully nor failed. Prime Minister Netanyahu has publicly committed to allowing time for them to succeed. Basically, this commitment reflects recognition that months of anti-reform demonstrations succeeded in obliging the coalition to at least temporarily rethink its program and its priorities.

Then too, the Netanyahu government must pass a budget by the end of May or, by law, the Knesset will be dissolved. This could fully occupy the legislators in the coming weeks. The task is not simple because budget-preparation has been neglected hitherto in favor of the thus-far abortive judicial reform effort. Then too, in order to form this coalition Netanyahu made extravagant commitments to his partners whose fulfilment could generate a huge inflationary deficit. Note that the previous Bennett-Lapid coalition left Netanyahu a budget surplus.

The security situation is also demanding attention. Demonstrations against the government have echoed within the IDF. This sends Israel’s neighbors a problematic message. The Islamists among them, led by Iran, believe they perceive a weakening of Israeli deterrence due to internal dissent, exacerbated by a weakening of the American security commitment in the Middle East. Last week’s appearance by Iranian Foreign Minister Amir-Abdollahian, peering into Israel through the northern border fence with Hezbollah and Lebanon, seemed eerily symbolic.

Months of massive anti-reform demonstrations and polls unfavorable to Netanyahu, his coalition and its judicial reform initiative have indeed left their mark. The prime minister appears to be caught between his need to feed the beast of his extremist coalition partners and his extremist minister of justice on the one hand, and, on the other, his need to extricate himself politically from a disastrous initiative that has pitted many of the country’s key institutions--security, finance, judicial--against him. In characteristic Netanyahu fashion, he is playing for time, albeit for only a month. Note that the coalition has registered no legislative achievements whatsoever during four months in office.

As a child in a Jerusalem apartment building, my neighbors and I had an Independence Day ritual. We used to watch the Mount Herzl ceremony on black-and-white television (color broadcast started only in 1983). Minutes before the MC officially ended Memorial Day and launched Independence Day, we ran to the roof. We cleared cobwebs and pigeon drippings, slid aside several dusty red tiles, stuck our heads in the window we created, and through the pine canopy, saw the modest firework show lighting the sky in multicolor. We then walked to downtown Jerusalem to join strangers in dancing circles, street snacking, and silly pranks.

We celebrated into the night, and once we were teens we celebrated through the night. It was my favorite holiday, a secular holiday that expressed unity and strength, communality in grief and celebration, taking pride in collective accomplishments and common purpose.

Over the years, Israel changed, and with it the character of the holiday. And so did I.

Yesterday, the House passed a resolution celebrating the 75th anniversary of the establishment of the State of Israel. In a major break from longstanding bipartisan policy and past Congressional resolutions celebrating Israel's founding, the House Republican Leadership chose to strip any reference to the Two-State Solution from the text.

We at Americans for Peace Now have been celebrating Israel’s independence and working for peace for over 40 years. As we mark the 75th anniversary of the State of Israel and we look toward the future of the state, we must recognize that a stable, secure and prosperous future for the state of Israel is contingent on the same for the Palestinian people. Supporting the State of Israel means acknowledging this important truth and advocating for a just end to the conflict. The removal of the Two State Solution language is a concerning reflection of the Republican party's departure from a longstanding bipartisan position.

Americans for Peace Now's President and CEO Hadar Susskind said: "The language of this resolution describes the United States and Israel as 'partners who share common values and a commitment to democracy'. It is clear that House Republicans share values and 'a commitment to democracy' with the Netanyahu government, but the decision to strip support for the Two-State Solution from the text requires that we ask exactly what “shared values” is Kevin McCarthy referring to? And more importantly, it begs the question, what future solution to the conflict do House Republicans support?"